Difference between revisions of "Community Ideas/Suggestions"

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# Characters in Wonderland should be representations of the character's Alice knows in London like Bumby's representation as the Dollmaker. Such as Nan Sharpe as the Dutchess and Wilson as the Caterpillar since he is trying similarly to fix her broken mind. Nurse D would be represented as the White Queen since she was one of the few people that showed Alice kindness during her stay in the asylum.
 
# Characters in Wonderland should be representations of the character's Alice knows in London like Bumby's representation as the Dollmaker. Such as Nan Sharpe as the Dutchess and Wilson as the Caterpillar since he is trying similarly to fix her broken mind. Nurse D would be represented as the White Queen since she was one of the few people that showed Alice kindness during her stay in the asylum.
 
# This game could continue exploring the concept of Alice: Otherlands where Alice would venture into other people's, such as Verne, minds as chapters. This could potentially be a DLC.
 
# This game could continue exploring the concept of Alice: Otherlands where Alice would venture into other people's, such as Verne, minds as chapters. This could potentially be a DLC.
#Alice arrives to Denial and she finds that all of the denizens of that world of grief stricken. The Mock Turtle is a prominent character he explains to her that Humpty Dumpty has been wanting to have a "Great fall" ever since he lost all of his  family members because he wouldn't come down off his wall to help them after they all became omelets for the Duchesses dinner. He fell into a despair and now Alice must save him from falling. But the Hatter has given Alice a quest he needs a piece to a machine but the only way she can get it is if Humpty falls and she can retrieve it from his innards. So she can either let him fall and destroy himself so that she get the necessary pieces or save him and the denizens of that world from drowning in their tears which seem to rise higher and higher each moment. (Morality choice)
+
#Alice arrives to Depression and she finds that all of the denizens of that world of grief stricken. The Mock Turtle is a prominent character he explains to her that Humpty Dumpty has been wanting to have a "Great fall" ever since he lost all of his  family members because he wouldn't come down off his wall to help them after they all became omelets for the Duchesses dinner. He fell into a despair and now Alice must save him from falling. But the Hatter has given Alice a quest he needs a piece to a machine but the only way she can get it is if Humpty falls and she can retrieve it from his innards. So she can either let him fall and destroy himself so that she get the necessary pieces or save him and the denizens of that world from drowning in their tears which seem to rise higher and higher each moment. (Morality choice)
  
 
===Cutscenes/Specifics (Do these fit in the game, and if so, where?)===
 
===Cutscenes/Specifics (Do these fit in the game, and if so, where?)===

Revision as of 18:58, 30 January 2020

In-game Ideas/Suggestions

Game Play

  1. A dog companion based on the puppy from the original Alice book. The dog will level up with you as you play and be called on to attack your enemies before vanishing/running away. The dog can gain armor as he's upgraded, so along with growth he appears more and more armored to the player's liking.
ALICE 1 flat.jpg










Story

  1. People who breathe hot air and fumes end up having a swollen and blistered throat. Shadow Alice could be struggling to speak/have a very hoarse voice;
    • When the fire reach human muscles, they get dried out and contract. She could be moving weirdly/have spasms
  2. Areas in the game in which Shadow Alice and Alice merge to take on larger enemies.
    • Can have multiple endings depending on choices the player made, having Shadow Alice be an evil entity that taunts her for the loss of her family and being weak, or being an understanding and compassionate entity that takes over for Alice and allows her to heal.
  3. At the beginning of the game Alice does not kill any of the enemies she fights unless in Rage or Hysteria mode and as the story progresses she begins doing darker deeds. However, the more dark things she does, the stronger Shadow Alice gets.
  4. Shadow Alice is an unlockable character, having different moves and skill sets than regular Alice. Could also be a multiple ending scenario where Alice's actions results in shadow Alice. (e.g Lawful good, Neutral, Lawful evil, ect.)
  5. Occasionally when passing mirrors, Shadow Alice is standing behind Alice, unbeknownst to her.
  6. Wonderland becomes grey and lifeless and it crumbles away as Alice enters the depression stage where her ruined house is. Moving through the house could lead to the anger stage where we find the Jabberwocky.
  7. Rabbit holes could act as portals to transport you to different parts of Wonderland.
  8. Parts of the game can switch to be played from the White Rabbit's perspective to get to places Alice can't go.
  9. The mermaid from the circus(see story ideas) could grant Alice a power up for swimming, she would release a fish that swallows Alice's legs and acts as a mermaid tail, allowing Alice to swim and breathe underwater.
  10. Vending machines that allow Alice to upgrade her weapons. Chaos coins used as currency.
  11. Characters in Wonderland should be representations of the character's Alice knows in London like Bumby's representation as the Dollmaker. Such as Nan Sharpe as the Dutchess and Wilson as the Caterpillar since he is trying similarly to fix her broken mind. Nurse D would be represented as the White Queen since she was one of the few people that showed Alice kindness during her stay in the asylum.
  12. This game could continue exploring the concept of Alice: Otherlands where Alice would venture into other people's, such as Verne, minds as chapters. This could potentially be a DLC.
  13. Alice arrives to Depression and she finds that all of the denizens of that world of grief stricken. The Mock Turtle is a prominent character he explains to her that Humpty Dumpty has been wanting to have a "Great fall" ever since he lost all of his family members because he wouldn't come down off his wall to help them after they all became omelets for the Duchesses dinner. He fell into a despair and now Alice must save him from falling. But the Hatter has given Alice a quest he needs a piece to a machine but the only way she can get it is if Humpty falls and she can retrieve it from his innards. So she can either let him fall and destroy himself so that she get the necessary pieces or save him and the denizens of that world from drowning in their tears which seem to rise higher and higher each moment. (Morality choice)

Cutscenes/Specifics (Do these fit in the game, and if so, where?)

  1. Have adult Alice begin the journey of “Alice: Asylum” by going into a coma.
  2. Shadow Alice and Alice both believe they are the “real” Alice but in the end they realize they are two parts of a whole and they need to exist together.
  3. At the end of the game we see old Alice in a wheelchair, talking to the Cheshire before a nurse comes to wheel her away.
  4. A flashback to Alice pushing Bumby in front of the train but Alice is in the form of Shadow Alice.
  5. A concept where Alice is to play croquet outside of the asylum playing with the croquet mallet.
    • Alice walks into a battle boss “Flamingoon” where she lands in a tournament with most of wonderland watching in the stands, possibly just more flamingos.
    • The Croquet mallet comes alive and transforms into an upgraded evil flamingo mallet called a “Mallet Ringer” after a combo attack.
    • The Mallet Ringer keeps it's flamingo shape, feathery body, legs and feet with electricity coursing through the entire weapon for a limited time with Alice also gaining immunity during.
    • Alice is able to turn the Mallet Ringer around holding the neck and propel the legs and feet as another means of secondary damage.
    • After the Flamingoon boss battle is over, Alice retrieves a flamingo dress that can allow her to fly short distances while wearing it.
  6. Alice meets a group of Freakshow type characters at the circus based on children in her asylum ward; they all look like failed experiments.
    • One is a mermaid of a girl and boy, Siamese twins that are sewn together/connected at the head. She looks also as though she’s being swallowed by a giant fish from the waist down.
  7. Alice comes across train tracks with an abandoned train familiar from Madness Returns. She enters it and notices Cheshire on a nearby seat and the train begins to move backwards. Looking through the windows, she sees and hears the amusement park (circus) straight ahead.
  8. After the accident in the Hatter's lab, he uses a chemical to heal himself which makes him immortal and changes his skin green. This chemical could also be what the Hatter uses to put the Jabberwocky back together after Alice defeats him. The Jabberwocky before being defeated would look more grey and closer to Omri's image. (The Watcher, The Self, The Shadow)
  9. A section in denial the is reminiscent of London. It's dark and raining and all the buildings are made up of doors that do not open, representing indecision.
  10. A cutscene where the inmates are called to go out to the courtyard, and we watch in third person as Alice’s roommates shuffle out of the room. All except herself. As various patients walk past Alice, they mumble and murmur about her. How she never gets up, how she never attend roll call, etc. As the last one leaves, Alice sees a white rabbit hop into view, it stops in the middle of the hall and looks back at her then runs off. Desperate to follow it, she quickly scrambles out of bed, this will be an out of body experience. The players will then be able to explore the asylum as Alice's conscious.

Dresses

  1. Chaos Dress
    • Switch between Chaos and Order
      • On/Off Mode for the dress
    • Powers like the Shrinking ability in Alice: Madness Returns, which the world will change and reveal secrets and hidden passages
    • Changes as Alice goes into battle
  2. Harvest Dress
    • Drops of the black slime from the Harvest dress do damage to enemies but slowly heal Alice
  3. Blackening Dress
    • Allows Alice to disappear into shadowed areas and Alice’s attack is boosted in moon areas
  4. Inferno dress
    • Causes enemies to catch on fire
  5. Ash dress
    • Trail of ashes follows Alice.
    • Creates ashes, making Alice difficult to see
      • Could cause enemies to choke, alerting nearby enemies
      • Standing in place would create a cloud of ashes
  6. Pleading dress
    • Turns enemies to allies, attacking other enemies for short periods of time
      • Bargaining dress has similar abilities to Pleading only Alice must give something in exchange for help
  7. Denial Dress
    • Dress becomes more tattered as the player progress in the game
    • Denial dress puts enemies in denial, mistaking Alice for friend and letting her pass by unharmed (Could also cause friendlies to attack Alice)
    • If Alice stands still while wearing the denial dress the environment will begin to change, revealing the
  8. Red Dress
    • Ballet tiptoe throughout level
    • Pirouette when jumping
    • Red dress acts as a matador cape, causing large enemies to charge at Alice, taking down smaller enemies in the process
  9. Circus dress
    • Improves Alice’s acrobatic abilities
  10. King of Planets
    • Has a black hole effect, causing damage to enemies as they are pulled closer
    • Supernova spin attack, does massive damage to nearby enemies
  11. Confidence dress
    • Allows Alice to intimidate enemies, stunning them
    • Also allows Alice to perform more daring abilities (Jump farther and higher)
  12. Depression Dress
    • Very dull in color and looks very heavy like it's weighing Alice down.
    • Makes Alice slower but her attacks are more deadly
    • Chains or straps so that Alice looks trapped in the dress
    • Tears continuously flow from her eyes
    • Too many enemies nearby causes Alice to scream “Leave me alone!” which will force enemies back
  13. Certain enemies are weaker against certain dresses i.e. Fire over earth, water over fire, ect
  14. Dark Alice(inner self)
    • Hysteria-like power-up
  15. Not required to switch between dresses for a specific power
  16. Runes to upgrade dress
    • Adding the opposing runes found in certain area to allow Alice to gain defensive bonuses
  17. Collection of items/objects to craft together and/or upgrade abilities
  18. Dresses having an effect on the game itself
    • Mercury Dress would raise gamma and give Alice cracked, bleeding skin to represent symptoms of mercury poisoning
    • Mercury dress leaks mercury from the dress, causing damage to enemies.
  19. Mercury dress should blend into the surroundings if standing still (This would cause damage to the player)
  20. Mercury dress reacts to the temperature of the environment
    • Liquid, short, and flowing in hot areas. Rigid and longer in cool areas
  21. Flower Dress
    • A Flora dress with vines to slap enemies
    • Alice would blend in, in the garden, to avoid being attacked by the flowers
  22. Forgiveness dress
  23. Candy Dress
  24. Teacup Dress
  25. Rainbow Lolita style dress
  26. Shadow Alice wears the chaos necklace and regular Alice wears the Alpha
  27. Finding all chaos coins, Cheshire cat locations, memories, ect could unlock a special dress.
  28. A Flamingo dress that's able to fly short distances while worn. Flamingo feathers could be falling for cosmetic effects while flying.
  29. An Out of the Woods inspired dress, she would look like Little Red Riding Hood merging with the wolf. Wolf head bow, amber eyes, claws, ect.
  30. A black widow dress with messy spiderwebs and a red hour glass in the front.

Tarot Cards

  1. Give to NPC for buffs
  2. Slot into weapons
    • Tarot Cards act as weapons and each you collect gives you different firing styles or modes.
    • Tarot cards work as an upgrades you collect (Each card gives your weapons an ability)
  3. Tarot cards wands, pentacles, swords and cups give you abilities e.g., swords would cause Vorpal blades to rain down, cups can be summoned to stop flowing water
  4. Make Alice Asylum tarot cards into an Out of the woods expansion pack.
  5. Tarot cards unlock weapons for the second play through
  6. Tarot cards summon help
  7. Tarot cards can be used to help Alice progress i.e., make stairs/bridges from cards, grant access to certain areas
  8. Cards could unlock memories about corresponding characters.

Weapons

  1. Weapons have two functions, a normal mode and a chaos mode.
  2. A slingshot shaped like the mercury symbol.
  3. A bubble wand that captures enemies in a bubble that pops when it rises so far and gives them fall damage. Can also be used as a bubble shield.
  4. Alice obtains a bonesaw from the asylum and uses it before she gets the vorpal blade.
  5. A shield that able to be upgraded like her weapons, and various things like fire needing higher upgrades to block/deflect.

Enemies

  1. Cranky the bear explodes in a suicide bomber manner
  2. Cranky pulls itself apart to become separate enemies
  3. At half health cranky rips itself in half to become two enemies, the bear and the doll.
    • Cranky releases a feral scream as its torn apart and attacks.
  4. Alice must fight the other inmates in the circus
  5. Some of the circus could include:
    • A strongman that has a barbell, can throw kettlebells, and is able to pound the ground and knock Alice over. He would move slowly but is extremely powerful.
    • A Siamese twin enemy that can separate and grab Alice, squeezing her like an Iron Maiden.
    • Slapstick clowns that spray acting from their pocket flowers instead of water.
    • A Grand Marshall enemy that can parade other enemies towards Alice and has a loud whistle that can do damage if Alice is within range.
  6. Broken toys do not attack until they’ve crawled to another broken toy and merged
  7. Fight normal toys and the defeated enemies merge together to create another enemy
  8. Creatures that hide under the grass, must watch for mounds they're hidden under.
  9. Lion Unicorn chimera
  10. Shadow versions of Alice’s family
  11. Dollhouse with the heads of her family shooting fire
  12. The Itsy Bitsy suggestions:
    • Shoots web to slow Alice down and charges quickly at her.
    • Change the color of the slime
    • Make the doll face melted
    • Drips acid instead of goo
    • Webbing burns Alice
    • Make the doll heads more porcelain and less flesh colored like they were in AMR
  13. Monsters lurking in the depths of the underwater levels
  14. Rocking horse enemy with blades for rockers.
    • Rocks to deal damage to Alice.
    • Could have razor sharp teeth and multiple heads
    • Show up in swarms
  15. Sunflower enemy that burns Alice
  16. Sound effects; enemies should go “splat”
  17. A toy soldier type enemy in the Playground area.
  18. A burrower type enemy with elongated arms and sharp claws, seen wearing a tattered straight jacket. Can burrow into the ground and emerge to attack Alice.
    • Weak against light or perhaps fire.
  19. A voodoo enemy that attacks Alice by attacking itself and if Alice attacks it then it also damages her. Must sneak up on it or break the line of sight to defeat it.
  20. A doll baby enemy that has different flora growing out of it or a plant enemy growing out of discarded doll parts.
  21. A make-your-own-enemy screen where you can customize enemy characters.
  22. A wailing enemy that doesn't have a solid form, much like a wisp, it cowers and cries and if approached it will attack Alice. They also have a cold aura and getting if too close the cold will damage Alice.
    • Attacking it with the Joker card can cause it to laugh happily and disappear.
  23. A vampire bat enemy that resides in dark places and spits a sticky saliva that can trap Alice.
  24. A chef enemy that attacks Alice with silverware and rancid food that has maggots in it that also attack Alice.
  25. A mirror Alice that comes out of the mirror and attacks Alice if she stares too long, would look like a negative of Alice.
  26. A part Knight, part handcar, that attacks in straight lines and can also be mounted by Alice.
  27. Alice finds a scarecrow in the woods, named "Strawcrow". He doesn’t speak and makes straw puppets. He has crow pets that help him gather the straw for the puppets.
    • The Strawcrow always appears to be weaving. When provoked, the crows surrounding him eyes begin to glow red and a few straw puppets come to life with a red aura and begin to attack Alice.
  28. A hydra type boss you fight at the end of each stage, decapitating each head being symbolic of Alice's conquering another one of the stages of grief/ptsd. The monster will vanish after a head is taken.
ALICE 3 flat.jpg









29. Mini boss versions of the Jabberwocky, known as Jabberbabbas, or Jabbawinkles.

ALICE 2 flat.jpg








==

Miscellaneous Ideas/Suggestions

Merchandise

  1. Artbook
  2. Novels based on the games
  3. Cut and assemble pop up book of Wonderland included with the paper dolls
  4. Set of color-able paper dolls
  5. Plushies of various characters in the game
    • Baby Jabberwock
    • Alice's Stuffed Rabbit
    • Card Guard
    • Alice
      • Hysteria Alice
      • Alice with interchangeable dresses
    • Vorpal blade
    • Ruins
    • Hobby Horse
    • Teapot Cannon
  6. Nendoroids or Figmas
  7. Alice figure with interchangeable dresses
  8. Alice bows as hair clips and pins
  9. Wrist restraints as bracelets
  10. Release weapon props like the Vorpal Blade and Teapot Cannon from AMR
  11. Chaos Shoulder Bag
  12. Asylum straight jacket purse
  13. Alice Asylum Card Game
  14. Rabbit plushie that is "flappable" (See Flipazoos) cute rabbit plush on one side, Wonderland rabbit on the other
  15. A “Choose your own adventure” Alice book
  16. Alice jigsaw puzzle
  17. Steelbook cases, using a playing card motif (one side is the back of the cards as seen in Cardbridge, face is Alice as the Ace of something. Done in the style of a face card, with Alice and Shadow Alice as the two designs.

Other

  1. Game becomes a musical (Why not?)
  2. Downloadable Content
    • As long as they do not offend people(aka pay to win, paywall)
  3. Have Susie Brann sing a theme song for the game
Alice Talks To Much "To Herself"
Baphomet Giger|Posted on Jun 10 at 3:19 pm|

Alice Mumbles To Herself, ALOT, Not Just Humming To Music, She Puts Herself Down and Scolds Herself, Then She Counsels Herself and Fixes her strong Ego, Sometimes She Bullies Herself, But That Only Pisses her off and makes her stronger and more Determined and aggressive. She Bullies herself gets Angry then takes her anger out on wonderland villains. If She Cuts herself down she picks herself back up and then everythings ok again, Its called being "BIPOLAR" HAPPY SAD ANGRY MAD She mumbles to herself alot, nonstop that it becomes annoying. Then she yells at herself to shut up because she might say something stupid, so she bites her tounge, she is an interlectual, she is very good at mathamatics after all Lewis Carroll was her friend, he was a priest, author, artist, and math expert. Don't you think that some of that may have rubbed off on ALICE, This is a Very Smart Young Lady named Alice put into a world of CHAOS, She May Be Bipolar, She Could Be Skitzophrenic. But She's Not, SHE's JUST MAD, Because WONDERLAND is BIPOLAR and SKITZOPHRENIC, SHE COMPLETLY SANE, SHES ONLY DEFENDING HERSELF, SHE IS NOT HOMICIDAL, WONDERLAND BECAME HOMICIDAL, Alice Is A Soldier dDfending her Mind From MADNESS!! And The Mumbling Never Ended, The Talking To Herself Never Ended, And The Answer Is NO, she does not her voices, She has telepathy, There is a difference! ANYWAYS THE PSYCHOTIC MUMBLING SHOULD TOTALLY BE IN THE GAME THE MORE THE BETTER!!!!!

Voices of the Children
Katy J. S.|Posted on May 8 at 7:08 pm|

I think a fun idea would be for Patreon patrons/community members to record snippets of them speaking - either random lines or quotes from the Alice books - to be whispers in the Asylum and/or the voices of the insane children.

Toy Shop and Merchant
Greg P|Posted on Mar 6 at 8:08 pm|

On the 3/6/19 (or 3/7/19, depending on time zone) live stream, Alice_on_Elm_Street suggested that Alice's toy weapons could be upgraded at a toy shop. Building on this suggestion, perhaps Bumby/Dollmaker could be the merchant who runs the shop. For players who have been through "AMR" they would recognize who this is, but to a younger Alice she would be unawares of who this nefarious person is and only see them as the kindly gent who likes children's toys and upgrades them for her, adding a link between games without making it too obvious but still working within the established history and characteristics of everyone involved.

The Blue Dress
Never2dark2play|Posted on Jan 15 at 1:44 am|Last edited on Jan 15 at 1:44 am|

After the 1/14 Crowd Discussion:

In AMA and AMR, the dresses are a symbol of accomplishment. "You made it to the next stage! Here take this!" type of ideals. Every dress has an ability or perk that is sometimes essential in new stages. It's always been like this. To me it feels like her way of tracking her mental progress and assigning the proper tools to deal with the current situation.

When you're insane and in extreme darkness, you hold onto moments. You can't ever let go of those moments. For the Blue Dress to have outlasted the sway of time and events as "Thee Alice Dress", It either had to be the first step of an important cycle, the only good thing she had to hold on to for a very long period, or a totem that reminds the person of their core beliefs.

Saying that it could just be another unlockable dress or she wore it cuz the color reminded her of her sister is very wrong to me. It needs to be introduced as a grand gesture, a symbol of something greater than anything thus far. The very thing that started her on her journey to get out of the madness.

It can't be about someone she lost in the fire cuz when a crazy person experiences violent loss, Anything that reminds them of the loss tends to Trigger episodes even when they're in the denial phase. No one can make progress if they're always stuck in an episode. That concept can't apply to Alice cuz even though you could say wonderland is an episode, she's always actively working to get through it.

I have ideas of how to make the dress such an object, but I need some info on the direction of the story.

Being that she'll be 13 in this game, That's roughly 6 years after the fire, and 5 years into being at the asylum. In AMA, we see Alice wearing the dress as she lay in the bed at the beginning, throughout the game, and at the end when she's leaving the asylum.

>At this point if we wanted it to be a first step or her very first dress in the cycle, it should have already been one for awhile. Basically meaning she would already need to have it given that she gets new dresses in this game. However, if she already had the dress prior to being 13, I would venture to say that it wouldn't fit her at 18 years old when we see her wearing it in AMA. So I'm at an impasse there. The only way to make it work would be her getting the dress at the literal beginning of this game.

>If we were going for it being the only good thing she had to hold on to, that would be a little easier. A dress she got from someone who helped her after the fire or a hand me down that didn't fit when she got it but does now that she's older. Or Maybe it's the dress inmates get when they leave, which isn't exactly a grand entrance for the legendary blue dress, but does lay the foundation that it's a symbol for being sane. It's not like she can just leave the Asylum and go shopping. The dress is going to have to be there already and given to her in some way.

>For a totem, I honestly don't think it would work too well as a totem. It could really only be displayed on someone in the Asylum for her to see and have access to. That person would then have to give it to her at some point however, No one at the asylum has ever been described as a good person. So why would they give it to her?

We have to remember that the Blue Dress is real, where as all the other dresses are manifestations of her mind. Therefore we have to find a Real way to get it to her in the first place.

I know what some are thinking, if it's real can't we just give it to her? Why does it have to have a documented entrance? The answer: Cuz if it didn't it could have been traded out for other clothing at any time. It wouldn't be the One and Only Blue Dress, it would just be her clothes. It had to mean something in the beginning to give it the future reputation that it has now.

I hope this makes sense. My mind wasn't really cooperating with me today. If you have questions I'm in Discord @never2dark2play #7038

Story Suggestion: Shadow Alice as the Player Character
Greg P|Posted on Dec 10 at 8:21 pm|

Suggestion: The player character in “Asylum” is Shadow Alice throughout the whole game, not just as the "narrator".

In-depth: The story of Alice chasing down her Shadow through Wonderland to stop it is recast after the late-game reveal as the “real” Alice running away from this pursuing monster (the player). The denizens of Wonderland fighting you aren’t doing so because they’ve confused the “real” and Shadow Alice, they know exactly who you are and are trying to stop you. The Shadow Alice that has been talking to you via mirrors (to borrow another suggestion) is not some evil reflection but has been yourself all along. Perhaps Rage and Hysteria Alice have been sent as sub bosses by the “real” Alice, the inner child, who is terrified by the Shadow’s attempts to bring order/maturity (as in growth, dealing with the fire and the consequences of, etc) to the inherent Chaos of Wonderland/childhood.

Perhaps this might be a bit too “Braid”/“Fight Club”, maybe it changes who/what Shadow Alice is too much, and I’m not even sure if I’m wholly onboard with this idea, but I think this might work on a story level, allow for some great imagery/visuals, flesh out the whole conflict between the self and shadow self, and prevent a cheap “gotcha” scenario where the player beats Shadow Alice at the end of the game only to lose to her in a cutscene or be forced to counter-intuitively lose the fight to beat the game.